Forest .. A Few Concerns

Matt Waterfield returns for his second article for Forest 24-7.

I wrote my first article on 17 June, although I didn’t intend it to be my last I’m shocked that here on Friday 14 October, a mere 4 months later things have changed so much.

I guess I’ll start by highlighting some points from my last post... I said I believed us to be a top 6-10 club who had been playing above our station under Billy Davies, well I still believe that, we’ve just found ourselves playing well below ourselves under Mr McClaren. It just shows what good motivation and team morale can do.

I questioned if Mr McClaren would be able to adapt to the division, he certainly didn’t seem able to manage our defence. We all know we’ve gone from one of the best to the worst in ten games. Other than the obvious Left Back issue (which he and the board denied was a priority close season), messrs Morgan, Chambers and Camp look like different people.

Hmmm, then to the signings, this is what I said in June... “[Signing players] to suit the manager rather than suit the situation. Paying too much for players who struggle to motivate themselves against ʻlower clubsʼ. Successful teams in the
division can play football, but theyʼre almost always built on solid (big/strong/decent pace) players”. For this read Greening, Boateng, and Reid. I hoped McClaren would create a greater pull for potential signings, and I was conscious we kept moving in the right direction. I can honestly say I never imagined we take this many backward steps in such a short time.

There are plenty of topics and discussion on what has happened and where it has all gone wrong, so I’m not going to get too involved in that. The forest fans however seemed spit between half wanting McClaren’s head and half wanting the boards. Although I’ve questioned some of the boards decisions and actions, it was Mr Doughty’s money and down to him to do with it as he saw fit. If he believes it costs too much to pay a players wages for a loan, transfer or whatever than that is his prerogative. I very much doubt the fans calling for his head would stump the percentage of their income like he has, let alone the countless lost millions.

There too were voices defending Mr McClaren, I’m sure he was sold different product to what he received, but he saw how the club was ran previously so he shouldn’t have been so naive to think he would get a blank cheque book. There’s
been a lot of talk about ambition too, I want to make a special point about this. As I am lead to believe the wage bill for this year is higher than last year. We may have less players but they cost more. And it didn’t seem to me the cheque book was closed, just that it had it’s limitations and valuation on players. If Mr McClaren correlated ambition to money he had his share. Maybe a definite pre-agreed budget would saved such hassle?

And now for the baying mob, it has got what it wanted and Mr Doughty has stepped down, I think we will see the club have to cut it’s cloth according. For me the mob was like a spoilt child, having a tantrum in the shop wanting Mummy to spend money on that shiny new toy, now Mummy has gone, who’s going to cook tea? Although he still intends to back the club I think budgets will be set and we will have to live much more within our means. The signing of Steve Cotterill for me is the first sign of this.

And so for a final plea, already the social networking sites are awash with disdain toward the new manager. Please everyone, give him a chance. Stop leaving in Forest cuckoo land. Managers like Martin O’Neil and Jose Mourinho were never likely. Lets get behind Steve Cotterill, give the team some backing, help stabilise the ship, finish in mid-table and try to build for FFP and the playoffs next season.

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One of Three for Forest Job

According to the BBC there are three candidates being interviewed for the managers job. Steve Cotterill(of course ex County) Mark Robins and finally Kevin MacDonald who is currently at Villa.


We have previously talked about and mentioned Robins, though at the time I was wrongly under the impression he was still at Barnsley despite having seen numerous thing about Barnsley's new manager. Anyway, he had a good record with a limited club, and all working with budgets (vital now with Forest). Rotherham would have more success under him had it not been their massive point reduction. Most importantly he is currently unemployed so wouldn't cost the club any money at all in compensation.



Steve Cotterill, well, he was of course although briefly, a former Notts County manager, bought in to get them over the line in their promotion season that was somewhat stuttering. He had 2-3 excellent months, but of course County were in a parlous state after Munto's takeover so he left for the much more stable Portsmouth (of course I am being sarcastic). He hasn't exactly pulled up trees with Pompey, but they have been working under terrible financial constraints, something that is probably enticing to the Forest board. Pompey were tipped by some to just plummet through the league last season, so them not really being in danger can be seen potentially as a success. But he is somewhat of a journeyman manager. He has brief success usually followed by stagnation,and its a choice that wouldn't fill me with glee.


Kevin MacDonald has limited managerial experience, in two caretaker roles with Leicester and Villa.though he is more well known for that spell with Villa.That was also with mixed success, in 8 games he only two, before Gerard Houllier took over.

I personally side with appointing Robins. If any from this list. Then again we have seen this too and fro so much in the last 10 days. Cotterill has too mixed a past in management, MacDonald has none, and I said at the start of this Robins would be a good choice. Although I have said I would support a Pemberton appointment, and he has no experience, however that was with a Director of Football working alongside him. Now Hart doesn't look like he is coming and with him apparently being the only choice for that role with the powers that be (like Hart is the ONLY man for the job? Bizarre) it looks like an old fashioned straight up manager appointment, and from this list (and pretty much most lists I saw) Robins would be my choice.

No Takeover on Horizon

I never like to be a told you so, but there is and never was a consortium in place taking over Forest.It was all just a rumour manufactured by the Sun, and who could have thought that? The very fact that anyone believed something that started with them frankly worries me that people these days believe anything they are told.

In my opinion any such takeover would have been a huge risk and gamble anyway. Do we really want people who frankly don't particularly care take us over? Don't get me wrong, they would for as long as they get us into a position to sell, and that would mean promotion, but where's the long term future there? Look at Birmingham and Portsmouth. I saw one tweet suggest if Manchester City can get massive backing, then why can't we, and then they then tried to suggest we were a bigger club pre Mansour then they were. Despite that vast shiny new stadium they had and being in Premier League. I point this out to show how deluded a whole bunch of fans have become.

In terms of having to stay with Doughty, people would you believe he is the worst chairman out there in the world, despite of course losing vast swathes of his personal fortune to keep us going, at least we haven't been a selling club. We haven't actually been that since we sold Dawson and Reid. We have always managed to keep our best players together without having to sell to keep us afloat unlike many so many clubs, so why is that so bad? Surely its worse to have a chairman we know can keep us afloat, but yet relies on club sales.

I bring to your attention John Majedski at Reading. Reading this year have sold two of their key players from a promotion chasing squad. Mills and Long were vital players,and haven't been replaced. From reading their forums I can see exactly the same argument we have made been made there. How can we get so close and just then not invest to get us over the line. In fact they made less signings than us. And we didn't sell two key players (Don't even try and claim Earnshaw as key,most fans I know thought his legs were gone anyway)

Or do we want what Doncaster had, where they had to ask fans to dig deep to loan a striker. To quote a Doncaster Rovers blog.

With Billy Sharp, Ryan Mason and James Hayter all struck down the club wanted fans to dig deep and donate money to the club to fund a replacement. Off the back of the worst injury crisis the club had ever known, this was our contingency. Our plan B involved wealthy men asking less than wealthy supporters for more money. The fans did raise some cash, probably enough for a week’s wages, two at best. And yet now a month later we are able to bring in a new manager and place another on ‘gardening leave’. Who’s paying for O’Driscoll and O’Kelly? Who is paying for Dean Saunders? Can those who donated blindly have their money back?

We aren't alone people in having a chairman who makes unpopular decisions. And here we go again, with a Burnley blog saying similar things

Clearly, it has not been the summer we all wanted to see. We had hoped there was going to be some money to spend and Eddie Howe would be able to keep the vast majority of his squad together, while adding two or three quality players to make us a real force this season.

You see this feeling of hard one by. That the people in charge should do more and have to do more, it's a feeling across most clubs. The difference is many other clubs make do.Their fans seem to understand the constraints.Our fans ,well a minority I should say seem to think £10 mill a year should be spent minimum.SO they got really excite about this takeover.

The whole takeover rumour just started getting silly anyway, with people on Twitter and Facebook just outright making stuff up about it, from Alan Shearer fronting it, to David Beckham buying us.I even saw someone tweet at Victoria Beckham asking her about it!!! WTF!!! That's outright ridiculous.

But now Doughty has resigned, it just seems he wants to stay owner, to keep us going, but just not making decisions. And now Mark Arthurs position seems to have been strengthened.Bravo protesters. Bravo. You utter dickheads.

Its Silly Season

I simply do not know what to believe any more, but there are so many reports flying around at the moment about what is going on with Forest,it's hard to frankly believe.

The Sun is suggesting an American / Chinese consortium is bidding to take over. They would install a top manager and invest big sums.They also suggest Doughty wants to sell up, which isn't really whats been reported elsewhere.I cant help thinking this is utter tosh. Throw in a couple of vague nationalities, a suggestion of a big name but with no real body behind the story and you have something that sends everyone into a frenzy. Also why would Doughty be stepping down at the end of the season and not just wait till the deal is concluded? Oh and its the Sun of course.

That other great reliable source of truth the Mirror is saying that Peter Ridsdale, of Leeds infamy offered to swoop in after Doughty resigned. Seeing as Ridsdale is one of the most maligned names in the sport in this country, I for one am elated he has not succeeded if this has any shred of truth. That really would be a case of the grass certainly not being greener, it'd be a very dead brown patch, and in administration. Ridsdale runs clubs to the very brink of extinction, but gets lovely goldfish to look at whilst he does it.

Roy Keane has seen his odds slashed to become Forest boss. This if true would definitely suggest that the takeover story is rubbish. That being said the age old story was that Keane was the choice of Irish businessmen bidding last season. But in yet another twist to the most twisting convoluted blogpost I have ever written, a few sources on Twitter (again highly dubious) suggest Keane has no chance an to not waste your money, there has simply been a run that everyone followed on gambling on Keane.

Finally, I haven't checked but if I won EuroMillions, I will be bidding for the club tomorrow.

Who Next For the Reds

As I said last night in the general overview piece I wrote there is a lot of useless conjecture and speculation surrounding who will be next in the hot seat Trentside. So lets have a look at it all!!

The names bandied around so far are so varied and so numerous that it's frankly ridiculous to consider that all of these are names in the frame.


From what I have seen on Oddschecker, Twitter, Facebook and forums, there has been around 4 clear favourites for the role. Karl Robinson at Milton Keynes, Alan Shearer, Billy Davies and perennial favourite Martin O'Neill.

Also heavily in the frame are Stuart Pearce, Roy Keane, Brian Laws, and Colin Cooper has quite short odds. That's from an ex player point of view. One that Stan Collymore is very keen to push. Listening to him last night on TalkSport (I prefer to call it TalkSpite)he didn't answer if he would take the job. That means he'd take it but doesn't want to throw his hat in the ring.


Other names chucked in there are Mark Robins, Aidy Boothroyd, Dave Jones and Gordon Strachan. The usual array of wild and made suggestions follow after this. Which includes Terry Farndale and on one site Lee Westwood.

The common ground at the moment is that Frank Clark or Paul Hart seem set for a Director of Football role. So an old school Forest presence working with whoever is brought in. That makes me certain it'll be a young manager. Karl Robinson is favourite for a reason, but Lee Clark. Derek McInnes at St Johnstone is also being mentioned, but also in connection with Bristol City who are also managerless.


Mark Robins would be a good choice, he has a good record, is used to working on a budget and would probably be likely to want to come on over and try his hand with a bigger club. Sean Driscoll, till recently at Doncaster has been suggested. Yes he did well at a limited club, but in the last year has barely won games. Now as I say it is because Doncaster for so long have been punching above their weight. However, I Don't this example would be a good choice.

Then we get to Stuart Pearce, a popular choice no doubt. But, ask Manchester City fans what they thought. He had a bad record in the transfer market and didn't play an attractive brand of football. Also I'm not convinced he would leave the England set up. Admittedly he has said he would love to help Forest out, so perhaps he is bored of the U-21 role and wants every day management at the club which he made his home.

Martin O'Neill I think is unlikely. He left Villa for having a lack of money to invest. Something he won't get here. I also swear I read that John Robertson is done, and wouldn't want to assist again. He has retired. So whether he would be as successful remains to be seen.


Roy Keane, although passionate, usually demands a lot of money to be spent on the same half a dozen average players he always buys (step up Carlos Edwards)I'm really thinking this would be a bad choice as a manager. But Keano is desperate to prove himself and he made his name with us.

Then there are the definite nono's. Brian Laws, I just don't see as a potential candidate. Alan Shearer likewise I wouldn't want to take a risk on. Alan Curbishley like McClaren would be trying to remake his name. Dave Jones and Gordon Strachan would be similar unpopular decisions amongst fans.

Karl Robinson I will admit I know next to nothing about. I think people see it as another Eddie Howe / Paul Lambert potential appointment, made his name in League One and is looking to make the step up. Paul Ince tried this too and look how they worked out. Just a word of warning. Paul Tisdale like Robinson is a young manager being linked that I know literally nothing about, but he has had success at Exeter despite having to sell players, which would be appealing as that might have to be a path we go down.


I do think we need a young hungry manager rather than someone desperate to remake their reputation, like McClaren. Notice I haven't mentioned Billy Davies, for the simple reason I can't see it occurring, nor want it too.

The Craziest Soap Opera Of Them All...

There are some of those outlandish soap opera plot lines, the ones where the long lost brother who was dead reveals it was him all along he infiltrated whatever. Basically that sort of tat TV seems more believable than what has happened in NG2 over the previously weekend. All of which I will break down more in further blogs too. This is all too big for just one.

If we go back 7 days all this looked somewhat improbable and impossible. We'd just won for a start. Going into a winnable away game with Burnley and a home game. It almost looked like things were looking up.

7 days later and the whole world has changed in ways beyond ever most of our wildest imaginations. McClaren resigning, well OK,this was always possible I guess, rumoured at least twice before, it has been a doomed relationship. The photos which will feature in time will be his lonely position he took up in the stands at Vicarage Road. And that was in a win.

The Doughty situation I don't think any of us saw coming, probably even the angry mob of protesters. The irony is of course most were anti Arthur and probably not Doughty, one remains and the other doesn't. And not as intended. I am sure100% of the protest would have taken Arthur resigning and not Doughty, certainly not in reverse. The irony is now too I have seen the protesters think they can get Davies in and will let Arthur stay. Like you get a choice. This is the funny part, one success and they think they are a focus group.

Doughtsy announcement he is to resign at the end of the season shocked me. Initially worried this meant he had decided enoughs enough, you pump a vast amount of your fortune into a club only for people one evolutionary rung on the ladder above a neanderthal to essentially hound you out. I am being unfair somewhat,Doughty has been hounded out per se. I think he is ashamed by this whole affair and so bares all the blame himself and so will bow out to avoid further embarrassment.

There is no embarrassment per se, he has always acted with the best interests at heart. Any line of business sees mistakes and you learn from those. It takes a big man to admit he got it wrong, and therefore I applaud him for that.I think its somewhat misguided,and he will essentially have final say so being the owner. The worry is that the clamour to replace him,might see us bring in a worser animal. Someone who makes bad decisions. Someone who doesn't differ opinion, a Mike Ashley figure, a figure of ridicule. Who merely makes problems worse.

What now? Well the fact that at least 4 people have been bookies favourites speaks volumes. There is no clear favourite. Names are just being bandied about willy nilly. We do have to get this right though.

The move to have Billy reinstated is ridiculous though. Never go back is one the main things said in football. Secondly every single bridge was burnt in this relationship. Finally I am sure it would be more poisonous than before. He wanted to go, and the only reason he has offered to come back is merely to prove a point, and he knows that won't happen.

As I say though, there will be more to come, focusing on Doughty and his reign, McClaren and his doomed tenure. And where do we go from here. Stay tuned.

McClaren and Doughty Resign

After just 111 days in charge, Steve McClaren has resigned from his role as Nottingham Forest manager  with immediate effect.

Today's defeat to Birmingham was the last straw for Steve and following 2 hours of rigorous talks with both chairman Nigel Doughty and chief exec Mark Arthur, he decided leaving the club was in the best interests of both parties.

Reports suggest McClaren was ready to walk away win, lose or draw. Doughty wrote off two loan moves for Michael Kightly and Lloyd Dyer in the past 48 hours due to wages. For McClaren, enough was enough.

Steve will not take any compensation.

The drama didn't end there as Nigel Doughty will also step down from his role as chairman at the end of the season.

Doughty has taken full responsibility and said appointing Steve was a 'very poor decision' on his part. 

There is no doubts in my mind, the pre and post-match protests also got to Doughty - he probably knew they would only get worse the longer he stayed associated with the club.

It's also worth pointing out that Mark Arthur will stay on...for now at least.

Rebuilding starts here and hopefully the end to the City Ground circus.

Follow me on twitter @benando_torres